EP 18: "Political Update" with Lewis McKenzie from The Scottish Sun

[00:00:00] This is 63 Percent Scottish, a Scotland Appreciation Podcast.

[00:00:30] Analysts when you're putting down stakes on what you'd like to see happen.

[00:00:34] Lewis Navigade, my ham-fistedness with incredible competence and grace, and as a result, that episode

[00:00:39] is still relevant.

[00:00:41] It's still a great primer on where the modern independence movement came from and where

[00:00:45] it may be going.

[00:00:46] A lot can happen in one year though.

[00:00:48] When I last spoke to Lewis, the Scottish National Party had a new leader, Homesau Yusuf.

[00:00:54] He was about six months into the job as First Minister, and while the S&P was in a weakened position,

[00:01:00] following some controversy and legal issues around Nicolas Sturgeon's departure

[00:01:03] leader, it seemed like the independence movement was still in good shape.

[00:01:08] Like it or not, Scotland's destiny isn't fully its own because it's part of the United

[00:01:12] Kingdom, and when we last spoke, the Prime Minister was Rishi Sunak.

[00:01:17] He was doing such a fantastic job that the Scottish people seemed more ready than ever

[00:01:21] to depart the Union, and did the continuing farce of Brexit was giving life to Scottish

[00:01:25] independence.

[00:01:27] But now, none of this is true.

[00:01:30] Yusuf isn't Scotland's First Minister.

[00:01:32] Sunak isn't the United Kingdom's Prime Minister, and for the first time in well over a decade,

[00:01:37] it seems like the independence movement might be on its heels, or at least that's what

[00:01:41] it looks like from Canada.

[00:01:43] The only way to really know is to ask an expert, which is why Lewis McKenzie is joining

[00:01:49] me once again to give us all the lay of the land in Scotland.

[00:01:53] It's great to have you back Lewis.

[00:01:55] Yeah, thanks very much for asking me back.

[00:01:59] A lot has happened since I think our last discussion.

[00:02:04] So yeah, looking forward to getting into discussing it.

[00:02:08] And you know, I know you're the consman journalist because we set this whole thing up on Twitter,

[00:02:12] and I think the only people who are active on Twitter now are journalists, politicians,

[00:02:17] crazy people.

[00:02:18] Right?

[00:02:19] That's the limited fact of your job.

[00:02:21] I don't know much more than I fall into some of my sense of the data.

[00:02:25] And I'm not a politician or a journalist, and I'm the one connected with you.

[00:02:29] So I must be in the crazy people just grabbed on and I like reluctant to let go,

[00:02:34] or maybe we're addicted.

[00:02:35] I don't know.

[00:02:37] Okay, so let's start with the Scottish National Party as revolving door of

[00:02:42] leaders.

[00:02:42] So what happened with Yusuf is his oyster about the individual, like his appeal to

[00:02:47] electorate?

[00:02:48] Or is this like internal party politics run a mock?

[00:02:51] I think it's a bit of a combination of both of those things.

[00:02:58] So sort of to give a background on.

[00:03:02] So when Hums' Yusuf came in, he inherited quite a difficult job taking over from

[00:03:08] Nicholas Dorgend who was.

[00:03:10] She was very popular and even though

[00:03:14] and many of you, she's quite a contentious figure.

[00:03:16] I think she would probably admit that or say all of her think when she stood down,

[00:03:19] you know, she said in her resignation speech that your people sort of loved or hated her.

[00:03:25] And then of course there was the police investigation into their senties, finances,

[00:03:30] during which she was arrested and it needs to be said that she was released without charge at that

[00:03:37] time.

[00:03:38] And that investigation is still going on.

[00:03:41] So Hums' Yusuf came in and really had a lot on his plate, I think, to say at least

[00:03:49] one of those things that he inherited from Nicholas Dorgend was the fact that at the time

[00:03:55] they sent P were in sort of a power sharing agreement with the Scottish Greens.

[00:04:01] So this basically ensured that this and P had majority of independent supporting MSPs,

[00:04:07] it was Scottish Parliament.

[00:04:09] So that was one of the big things that Hums' Yusuf came into.

[00:04:14] So he said that he would respect that agreement and he came into office.

[00:04:17] And so he maintained it.

[00:04:20] But the problem is a lot of the policies that the Greens were playing forward and went to the

[00:04:24] push through into the government were not particularly popular with the electorate.

[00:04:31] So there was some like grumblings and people were looking at sort of pulling numbers for the

[00:04:35] SMP, which were sort of declining.

[00:04:38] So there were the recent concern I think over Hums' Yusuf's leadership and his judgment.

[00:04:45] So that was sort of all rumbling along in the background.

[00:04:49] But eventually came to a head when he decided

[00:04:57] very short dramatic notice to end the agreement with the Greens.

[00:05:05] So he called them into a few house, which is the First Minister of Shreins and Enbro

[00:05:10] one morning and basically told them it's over.

[00:05:15] That's over.

[00:05:17] And now there's no ministerial cars for the Scottish Community Colleges.

[00:05:22] They had been ministers in the garden before.

[00:05:24] So they left that meeting out there ministerial cars,

[00:05:27] had to walk back the Parliament afterwards.

[00:05:31] I think maybe he thought that that would sort of

[00:05:36] could be smoothed over and that the Greens would sort of still prop up his government

[00:05:41] in would sort of take on the chin, but that is not what happened.

[00:05:45] And good ends were fairly unhappy and they said they've been support Hums'

[00:05:50] up in government.

[00:05:51] So really it was a big end of the end.

[00:05:54] So he tried to pat along so the next day, he would choose to give a speech in Glasgow.

[00:06:01] That was a very short notice.

[00:06:04] He then went up to Dundee instead, which is maybe about an hour and a half for the

[00:06:12] short of that on the chin from Glasgow.

[00:06:14] So all the journalists went up there.

[00:06:16] He made a funding announcement for housing up there.

[00:06:21] Oil and testing to everyone that he wasn't going to design.

[00:06:25] He dead loads of interviews with journalists.

[00:06:26] Every single interview said I'm not going I'm not going to quit.

[00:06:29] And by the Monday he had a press conference and he quit.

[00:06:34] So it was a very hectic few days.

[00:06:40] So that is basically what happened with Hums' use of.

[00:06:44] So it was pretty chaotic.

[00:06:48] It all came that head very, very quickly and now we're in a position where we have

[00:06:53] ready. I said, you were there and first.

[00:06:57] Yeah, and you know, I mean, use of lasted a little over a year, right, which is a long time for

[00:07:03] UK prime ministers but it's a short time for first ministers, I think.

[00:07:09] Well, it's a long time for some prime ministers.

[00:07:13] I think people would actually calculate the time that Hums are designing.

[00:07:17] I think they had calculated how many of us trust us he'd watched it.

[00:07:20] He measured by how many of us trusted us.

[00:07:25] So he said he lasted less trust so you know, you don't stick all that far.

[00:07:32] If you're going to have any sort of political embarrassment, it's a good fortune to have someone else

[00:07:37] have a considerably greater political embarrassment just south of you.

[00:07:42] So what can he tell listeners about John Swenney his replacement?

[00:07:46] Because he's only been the leader since May, but do you think he's destined for the same

[00:07:52] treatment as his predecessor? Does he seem to be kind of avoiding some of those landmines?

[00:07:56] Well, I think probably worked out for John Swenney as a fact that they

[00:08:02] missteped into the job the Greens were no longer in the government.

[00:08:06] That was sort of an issue for whoever was asking Pileater.

[00:08:11] And he didn't inherit it. So in a lot of ways, Hums are to a lot of the

[00:08:19] flag in the heat for that and made that discord decision, which probably has arguably benefited

[00:08:26] the party overall. Although without getting, I mean, an old will probably get into talking

[00:08:32] about the generalisation. A lot of people actually did cast their votes from the Greens instead

[00:08:38] and because they weren't happy with how that all went down and they saw John Swenney as more of a sort

[00:08:46] of center. The same risk and a politician that they didn't want, so they ended up giving up

[00:08:54] an SNP relation to both of the Greens. So back five minutes, but John Swenney is a very familiar

[00:09:02] face to people in Scotland. He was SNP leader before in 2000 to 2004 and that was back so before

[00:09:12] the SNP were the force sort of the Pacific, and Scottish politics. So there was Labour in charge

[00:09:18] when he was with their SNP. So he took over from Alexander and then to go over the job again

[00:09:28] 2004, he's already led them to success in the led them at the government for the first time

[00:09:33] and they became this sort of giant and Scottish politics. So John Swenney is, you know, he's a very

[00:09:41] very experienced guy. So he served in I think 16, 17 years as a capital minister. So under both

[00:09:55] Alexander, he was Deputy First Minister under Nicholas Dursion during her tenure as well. So

[00:10:02] he's a very very experienced politician and he's someone that SNP, MSPs and members really wanted

[00:10:13] to come in and take over from Hums' use of when his leadership ended. They saw him as sort of a

[00:10:25] need to at the time. I think he was quite reluctant actually to take on the job. His wife has health

[00:10:33] difficulties. So it was a really big decision for him to come and take and it wasn't one that he

[00:10:38] just jumped into but I think he felt quite sort of dritty about it to the party to come in and

[00:10:50] so it was not long at all into his time and the job that the general election was called. So he was

[00:10:57] really like thrown into that pretty much immediately. So I think probably a lot of people in this

[00:11:04] MP would have been quite happy that he came in and sort of stayed in the ship so to speak but

[00:11:10] it was a real tough task for him as it was for Hums' up to Honour's because I think a lot of

[00:11:16] him has been against SNP. He's certainly over the last year or so. Yeah it's almost like he's

[00:11:22] coming to steady a ship that's taking on water and has been taking on water for quite some time now.

[00:11:28] That's basically it, yes. How do you write it and how do you

[00:11:36] move forward? And I think that's kind of the challenge. And while that was happening,

[00:11:43] there was an election, a UK election. So since we last spoke, the UK has elected a new labor

[00:11:49] government from the Scottish perspective, do you think that Kier Starmer, so the new Prime Minister

[00:11:55] for anyone listening who doesn't know is considered an improvement over Rishi's soon-acc and

[00:12:00] the Conservative Party? I think people right across the UK, not just in Scotland, I think they

[00:12:06] really wanted to change. So I mean the Conservatives who've been in power for 14 years,

[00:12:14] I think very notably during that time of see, I had Boris Johnson who was found to have

[00:12:21] broken Rishi and Covid lockdowns and then Lestros and you know she was I think this year to say

[00:12:29] a bit of a disaster as Prime Minister, especially on the economy, which a lot people really

[00:12:34] pinniply among Lestros for the state of the economy and the fact that people's market has been

[00:12:39] up. So I think by the time the election came around, people really just wanted a change. They just

[00:12:46] wanted something. And in fact that was the whole message of labor's campaign to just use that

[00:12:52] word change over and over again. And I think Kier Starmer was seen as sort of competent. I think you know

[00:13:00] he was seen as probably not an exciting sort of candidate to become Prime Minister but someone that

[00:13:09] could just come in and get on with doing the job. And I think that kind of a P with two people.

[00:13:16] And but of course he's now got a big challenge to sort of prove that you know people's

[00:13:23] thoughts were worth giving to him and particularly in Scotland because you know labor made

[00:13:28] massive comeback in Scotland. So they had one MP elected the 2019 election which is obviously

[00:13:35] disastrous for labor and they jumped up to 37 MPs in this election. So it was a massive turnaround

[00:13:44] in the minutes astonishing really. It's an incredible comeback for labor by all this in the

[00:13:50] field to just 9 MPs. So it's huge but with that I think there is a lot of responsibility now for

[00:13:57] labor because we've got this Scottish Parliament election which was two years away. Labor really

[00:14:03] I think won't believe that they can win power. The Scottish Parliament which would be first times

[00:14:09] in 2007. They've been a government in Scotland that would be absolutely massive. Of course

[00:14:16] by that point of the Parliament election in 2006 you're going to be two years into UK labor government.

[00:14:23] So a lot will depend on how care farmer performs and handles the country or the next two years.

[00:14:29] That would be a challenge for labor. There was enough time there I think for this in Peter's

[00:14:34] sort of came ground on labor people are not so happy with what they see with the care

[00:14:41] and it's a challenge for Starrer too because he has the entirety of the United Kingdom to

[00:14:46] to govern and so when you have competing interests in different places we were just before we

[00:14:54] started recording talking about Canada and it's competing interests between Ontario or Quebec

[00:14:59] in Alberta for instance. Often that means there's promises or there's kind of policies

[00:15:06] that are promised for individual places did labor come to power with any promises for

[00:15:13] Scotland specifically or kind of indications that they would do something for Scotland?

[00:15:19] Well one of the big things that Kiosk Thomas promised is G.B. Energy which would be an energy

[00:15:25] farm and labor has said that that'll be hate quartered in Scotland. So we've got to still

[00:15:35] Starrer he made a lot of trips up to Scotland during the election. The M.A.B.E. really and even before

[00:15:41] the election we visited the law you was quite you know you was quite visible making trips

[00:15:46] to Scotland which is different from a lot of the Conservative prime ministers over the last few

[00:15:52] years who have been quite a lot in it I think to this sort of come to Scotland and certainly go

[00:15:57] to areas and spot them for your quite near the public whereas Starrer was very notable that

[00:16:04] came in the input and that's of the hard yards of Scotland campaigning you know you

[00:16:09] use up in Scotland like just I think the day before or maybe a couple of days before they

[00:16:14] the election election day so he really put a lot of emphasis on the need to win Scotland.

[00:16:22] Even though the SNP's argument at the time was that well labor are predicted to

[00:16:28] align slightly they don't actually need Scottish MPs to do that which is technically true

[00:16:34] you could still have one of majority Westminster without you know winning a single

[00:16:39] and well keen Scotland. You could technically have done that but I think Starrer and his point was

[00:16:45] but you know it's important for me personally to win Scotland and win over voters in Scotland

[00:16:52] and obviously that message you know had a cut through to people here and who I think wanted not just

[00:17:00] change from the Conservatives but like a lot of people want change from their MPs by all which

[00:17:05] again it's going to be the challenge for their SNP and it's a couple of years because they've been

[00:17:09] in power for you know a long time and I think the governments are in any bit really around

[00:17:15] the world I think it's difficult to keep yourself in a position where you're continually getting

[00:17:21] support from the public when you've been in power for so long I think there's about 50

[00:17:25] there and the governments are part of these big power for too low. Yeah that's and I mean that's

[00:17:31] a story you see certainly in a Westminster kind of system you see that quite often I mean we

[00:17:38] run that old time in Canada that's we're talking about it even even now federally the Trudeau

[00:17:44] government's been around for quite a long time and there there seems to be they seem to be wobbling

[00:17:48] a little bit without getting into any specific political preferences and the same thing happened

[00:17:54] in Ontario you know we had a liberal party for a long time that was was eventually

[00:18:01] the alternative seemed competent and so it's hard for political parties to maintain that for

[00:18:07] so just so long. So we've talked a little bit about the SNP's performance

[00:18:16] in the UK election because you know it's obviously they did not do particularly well

[00:18:24] but does that do you think that that will have a knock on effect in Scotland itself

[00:18:30] when it goes to the polls next I'm actually not sure when to when to Scotland next

[00:18:35] or is it expected? So that'll be in 2020 set so it's about more effects than my Spencer so there's

[00:18:42] some you can get sort of snap-lations and yeah for Westminster government but it's generally

[00:18:49] more fixed in Scotland I mean technically like safely the budget failed to

[00:18:54] prevent past which is a possibility especially with face-to-face in behind a

[00:19:00] North takeoffment now is possible that to happen that could trigger some of an early election

[00:19:04] but in all likelihood it would be in 2026 so I think that's a time scale that probably the other

[00:19:11] parties are actually quite contained with as well and I think they want to build up a more

[00:19:18] a bit more momentum and certainly the Scottish Conservatives are going through you know a

[00:19:22] change of leadership at the moment so there won the chances of reset in charter course and I think

[00:19:28] probably two years is about right so I think probably all parties are actually relatively okay with

[00:19:34] afterwards two years to kind of just get their bearings and like really like 40% on the 2020

[00:19:41] six election because their MPs obviously just come off the back of a really bad general election

[00:19:46] and we'll sort of make sure that they're getting the right message out to voters and I think

[00:19:52] Labour you know they would probably maybe care whether they're ready for an election now but

[00:19:58] I mean as definitely touch general election of course so and you know there's pulling out even

[00:20:07] like you know today basically showing that there's a peer neighbor really quite close

[00:20:11] so just because of Labour's sort of strong performance and strong in general election doesn't

[00:20:17] guarantee anything for 2020 to ensure that you know so they will need to sort of calibrate the message

[00:20:24] and make sure that they're offering something very distinctly you know for Scottish voters

[00:20:30] and especially if peer farmers doing things that you know maybe aren't as popular in Scotland

[00:20:35] or that people are maybe a bit turned off by because there's every chance that people may just go

[00:20:41] back to vote in the same key if they look at peer staff and say well Westminster isn't

[00:20:48] clevering for us from we voted for Labour to give them a chance. I'd say it's still kind of all

[00:20:55] to play for I would say it's not it's not for going to the collision that Labour will

[00:21:00] carry on from the general election in the going when Scotland. Well especially since if you're

[00:21:05] think about the the voter intention side of things from the general election if a big part of it

[00:21:09] was the conservatives have been here for a long time now let's get rid of them that's not that

[00:21:15] really work in a Scottish environment that they're not they're not there so that that need for change

[00:21:23] in a general election may not have the same kind of reflection in Scotland so it does feel again

[00:21:30] I can see so many parallels with with Canada but I mean I'm sure this this kind of thing

[00:21:35] happening in the United States as well the national and subnational levels having just totally different

[00:21:40] voter intention. Yeah yeah and I think I think I'm going into the election in two of your

[00:21:46] starting Labour will try and use that sort of change message or the gear star we're had any

[00:21:52] used against the conservatives and they will use that change message going for 2020 to this

[00:21:58] situation we'll turn that on this in P and say they said you've been a person to 2017 so

[00:22:04] we need something different now so you know they will use that to try and wind the voters over

[00:22:10] but you know the problem is that you know gear star will be in power by two years by that point so

[00:22:18] that will be the struggle for them Labour because people will be able to contrast it with

[00:22:23] what's happening in the United States or across the UK at that time and they'll look at how

[00:22:29] star was done over two years and they'll say well do we think he's done a good enough job to get

[00:22:35] votes or not and you know and people will judge sort of and Scottsley were part of

[00:22:42] that even though you know they're sort of separate enough to get your star number but they

[00:22:48] are still judged because I'm sure you know Kierstaama will likely get up in Scotland probably

[00:22:53] from 2020 to 26 like because I'll try it but maybe he depending on what how popular it is maybe

[00:23:00] you know you may be more of a you know whether it will be a help or a hand in the Southern North

[00:23:06] and by that point no depend on how goods or bad job these things yeah I mean I get the sense

[00:23:14] that there is I mean you said they're they are different things. It's got a Shlaver and the Labour

[00:23:20] Party kind of more broadly are different things but I get the sense there is maybe more connection

[00:23:25] in Scotland and the UK or broadly than there is in Canada because in Canada you know the Liberal

[00:23:33] Party federally and the Ontario Liberal Party for instance are just separate things and they do

[00:23:39] it obviously they have similar politics in some ways but historically what's happened what happens

[00:23:45] here is often whoever you have in government federally you almost have the opposite provincially

[00:23:52] so Ontario whenever there's a Liberal Party federally you have a Conservative Party

[00:23:58] provincially and if it flips and one there's a chance that it's going to flip in the other

[00:24:03] and historically you go back and you always see that kind of opposition piece let's maybe not

[00:24:09] line up all of our ducks in this one row for whatever reason but it sounds it sounds like there's

[00:24:16] is there more coordination between say the Labour the kind of greater Labour Party in the Scottish

[00:24:22] Labour Party are they very coordinated? They are very coordinated and this is kind of one of

[00:24:31] the touchlings that they sent people using it's Labour they say that Scotch Labour merely the

[00:24:35] Bradshaw Office of UK Labour and you know that they've had success using that apparently

[00:24:43] and there's no doubt that you know they are aligned on a lot of things I mean

[00:24:49] Scottish Labour MPs will go to Westminster and you know they'll have to vote sort of

[00:24:55] in line with the Labour government so they are part of that same party that same group

[00:25:01] the Westminster and and a Sourwark the Scottish Labour leader and Kier Stover are

[00:25:08] very closely aligned and they've made a little secret about the fact that they can't

[00:25:13] want well and they've campaigned together they've been very visible so you know spending time

[00:25:20] with each other and getting out at the ballot cross-scaled and so people will look at them as being

[00:25:27] you know a lot of people will look at them as being the same thing even though there are areas

[00:25:31] probably going to go to the city or out in Sourwark I think on the like the two child benefit

[00:25:35] cap which is a controversial sort of restriction on the number of children you can have

[00:25:42] benefit payments for new capages something that was initially brought up and under the

[00:25:47] conservatives so a UK Labour Labour said that they are not going to scrap that and they're

[00:25:55] having caused it and I saw our I think it's sort of the opinion that it should be scrap.

[00:26:01] So that is about a divergence but in people well you know they will write me a lot

[00:26:08] a lot a lot longer or rather a sphere or not they will judge, potentially burn the same

[00:26:12] bracket is UK Labour and they'll see you can have as much same thing and that's actually

[00:26:18] you know one of the issues that the Scottish Conservatives have had because

[00:26:23] you know there's quite always been a lot of them make its headlines to the Conservatives

[00:26:27] UK Labour with Boris Johnson, they hasn't been caught during Scotland and let's trust

[00:26:33] a lot of that sort of blame in anger has also been sort of directed at the Scottish Conservatives

[00:26:39] even though you know some an embo so it turned out to be safe well that wasn't to do

[00:26:45] us we don't know how to say that but people see them as the same thing so

[00:26:52] that's as a task for Labour or Scottish Labour and it's been said so

[00:26:58] so the last question maybe I'll ask you and we don't have to spend too much time on this

[00:27:04] but it is I think kind of a central question continuing in Scotland is you know we're recording

[00:27:10] this on the 10th anniversary of the last Scottish independence referendum what is the state of

[00:27:16] independence movement following all these political at peoples and I just a moments before we

[00:27:22] started recording I saw a tweet from their am on Twitter again geez something really wrong

[00:27:28] with me. It's from Ian Dunt who you may know Ian Dunt is political journalist in the UK in England

[00:27:35] he has said a decade since the referendum and Scottish independence efforts have proved

[00:27:41] tragic divisive and pointless and that's his summary his tweet summary of what's going on

[00:27:49] independence is do you agree with that? I mean there's a lot of people that will

[00:27:56] think that and there's a lot of people that will think they're completely opposite and obviously

[00:27:59] it was a really positive table and it was a very more essay and turnout was really good for

[00:28:06] the independence referendum anything was 85% which is kind of unhaired or really a process

[00:28:11] of no force for a vehicle and so people were really engaged in it and people really did have a stake

[00:28:18] in that vote and I mean I heard down on the radio this morning there was a university of

[00:28:26] students and Dunt either were being spoken to over the referendum and they were about 10 years old

[00:28:29] at times so that makes me feel very old and teeth and earwaxed. So people's a memory sort of

[00:28:38] of that time are pretty varied some people thought was amazing and other people did find it

[00:28:45] divisive but one of the things is that over the last 10 years the debate is still gone on

[00:28:52] it's never really stopped you know especially with this in peace sort of having such a sort of

[00:28:59] iron grip almost of Scottish politics and since then with you know the number of MPs they had

[00:29:06] for obviously the generalization this year and the fact that they're in government it's

[00:29:11] quite a department you know they have sort of kept that debate going you know neccessary

[00:29:18] and made a lot of attempts to try and have another referendum you know it just hasn't been

[00:29:25] possible to do it with the sort of you know the makeup of the UK because we're expensive

[00:29:33] would have to improve. Like say yes yeah to improve and I've read them take place in Scotland so

[00:29:40] it hasn't been possible the Scottish government does not have the priority sort of make it happen

[00:29:45] but it hasn't stopped people making the arguments for them against it and today you know we

[00:29:51] had we had the debate in the Scottish Parliament all about it and joined Sven Ameida a speech about it

[00:29:58] so on one hand you've got your SNP and obviously Nicholas is saying other people is also

[00:30:06] and Alexander's all the party and also the former SNP leader in first place or his

[00:30:11] parties Alba and the Greens were also in favour of Scottish independence and so they will continue

[00:30:20] making that as friend of pence they'll keep trying when people over and so a lot of people

[00:30:27] really don't want to go back to that time and do think it's divisive so

[00:30:32] we've not reached a end of the story but I think in the more we are I think it's probably fair

[00:30:38] to say we are probably a bit of an impasse just because there's not really a way to have our

[00:30:44] referendum in terms of and I think the fact that Labour won so many MPs at the general election

[00:30:51] has really sort of had that but not on their SNP. It's really a shape of really

[00:31:02] in a very interesting way for 2020 to get some elections so it'll be a really interesting one

[00:31:08] to watch because if Labour you know when power in that election it will be a huge shift in

[00:31:17] politics because it's been so long that I mean you're going to be talking you know 20 years really

[00:31:23] almost since the last time the changes of government in Scotland which is you know crazy really

[00:31:32] and then if they're MP you know are you have to stay in power then they will say well that's

[00:31:38] a mandate for us to have our own an independent referendum and it will keep pushing for it so

[00:31:44] it's really interesting movement and it's genuinely hard to predict so much for you as

[00:31:49] can they go two years out. Yeah I especially you know you're just saying 20 years I mean at the end

[00:31:54] of the the end of the day if there's an election in 2020 six and by the end of the mandate that

[00:31:58] if a Labour government for instance wins it will have been 20 years you know closing in on 20

[00:32:03] years since the referendum and it will and also you know there's whether it really depends on

[00:32:12] other Labour moves closer to the EU and things like that because I know Brexit is used as one of

[00:32:17] the reasons why Scotland should be able to be independent because it should be able to make its

[00:32:21] on decision and but yeah so it will be fastening moving forward so I don't want to keep you

[00:32:27] any longer so thank you so much for giving us the the label and when it comes to Scottish policy.

[00:32:32] We'll call them as law. Thank you for listening to 63% Scottish. Check us out on Instagram, Facebook

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